Curse

Rinadan Farhunt · Oct 30, 2007, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Yes. Since you're probably not attacking a ranger and a warror at the same time, I'm not really sure how thats relevant...

Hyper Cutter · Oct 30, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I'll also point out that some caster weapons do holy damage already...

HawkofStorms · Oct 30, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rinadan Farhunt

Yes. Since you're probably not attacking a ranger and a warror at the same time, I'm not really sure how thats relevant...

It means you won't have to use weapon swaps in PvP.

Alicendre · Oct 30, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

I'll also point out that some caster weapons do holy damage already...

Caster weapons aren't really imbalanced since you can't do more than ~30dmg with a staff/wand. On an useful weapon, Anet would have to include an insignia which protects from holy damage or something in this fashion.
And Tormentor's would be even more useless...

Nadia Roark · Oct 30, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rinadan Farhunt

Theres variety in pvp? Seriously?

Read my post again, carefully this time. I'll make it easy for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

We have abilities that ignore armor; ignoring armor with every swipe of your weapon is an entirely different ballgame, balance-wise. It would probably cut down on what little variety is left in PvP by standardizing melee weapons to an absurd and unnecessary degree. Elemental damage mods would become useless, and monks would take yet another ill-deserved hit considering everything else that's going on in the meta right now (hackbashslashlolol). It's a terrible idea, and I'm sure these mods were left out of the game on purpose. Not going to happen.

Note the emphasis. My point is that there is enough standardization in PvP and the inclusion of such a mod would only add to it. Adding insignias wouldn't help either, since it would marginalize casters (or, well... everyone) by stripping them of their current armor bonuses and forcing them to apply the new holy insignia if they want to get to use their armor against melee attacks. Seriously, how can you not see a glaring and obvious problem with this?

Quote:

Is this why I see people who are trying out some new build get flamed by everyone in the vicinity? "Omg noob lol, check FotM noob, read some forums" Ignoring armour with every swipe of your weapon (ie, attacking with holy damage), ooh, I can do that already with Judge's Insight and Avatar Of Balthazar, all this would do would be to make it into the weapon instead of being a spell, since with JI its possible to always have it active...

Judges Insight is an enchantment, which can be removed or otherwise countered. It is subject to a set of circumstances that a weapon would clearly not share, so comparing them in defense of your ignorance is ludicrous at best. Avatar also has drawbacks that a holy weapon probably wouldn't, and indtroducing insignias to counter it would only complicate things as I mentioned earlier. Melee and its buffs are already plenty powerful in this game, the last thing it needs is something like this.

Again: not going to happen.

FC_DriFteR · Nov 01, 2007, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicendre

And Tormentor's would be even more useless...

Since when was this useless? Back when there were no expansions southern shiverpeaks was only place with extensive holy damage. So this meant an additional 10 armor when you want to push nearer to the front line to hex an enemy, exploit a corpse etc. Also Tormentor's was the best looking male set

It's lost it's edge because of survivor insignia (Was there an equivalent back in the day?) , at least for me anyway

Alicendre · Nov 01, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by FC_DriFteR

Since when was this useless?

It's useless since Factions came out and energy armor isn't only a fugly thing, and the Minion Master armor gives a better bonus than the Tormentor's.

MithranArkanere · Nov 01, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

A-haha!

No. There are no insigna nor skills with extra armor against holy damage.

A mod with such damage should bear a great downside, like a -50Hp condition or something like that.

darkknightkain · Nov 01, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

If the only problem with Holy damage is just it is armour-ignoring, why not just make it Light/Dark/Chaos damage instead?

There are existing weapons with those damage types already.

MithranArkanere · Nov 01, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Eh... no.
There is no Light damage anymore.
Holy damage dealt with weapons (like under the effects of Forms and Enchantments or with smitting rods) is NOT armor ignoring. The Lightbringer's Gaze also does not ignore armor.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Holy_damage

But making it non-armor ignoring would do nothing.

HawkofStorms · Nov 02, 2007, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Yeah, the thing a lot of people don't get is, the problem isn't that it is armor ignoring (because it isn't). The problem is it bypasses many inherient mods (warriors +20 vs physical, rangers +30 vs elemental, and all the different +armor shield type mods).

Nadia Roark · Nov 02, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Yeah, the thing a lot of people don't get is, the problem isn't that it is armor ignoring (because it isn't).

Prior to reading the Wiki link above, I was ignorant of the differences between Holy Damage as a direct damage source versus Holy Damage as an attack source (since I never bothered to test whether wand attacks were armor-ignoring); but I would guess I'd have been corrected a lot sooner if the "HOLY MODS NAO" crowd was also aware of this. I think people on both sides (including, until recently, me) are assuming that such a weapon would ignore armor simply as a matter of course.

N E D M · Nov 02, 2007, 04:55 AM // 04:55

neat idea but just not feasable
/no way

HawkofStorms · Nov 02, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

Prior to reading the Wiki link above, I was ignorant of the differences between Holy Damage as a direct damage source versus Holy Damage as an attack source (since I never bothered to test whether wand attacks were armor-ignoring); but I would guess I'd have been corrected a lot sooner if the "HOLY MODS NAO" crowd was also aware of this. I think people on both sides (including, until recently, me) are assuming that such a weapon would ignore armor simply as a matter of course.

Well, the thing is even if you are informed, you should still be a "NAO" person. I'm against this. Its overpowered because it is statistically clearly superior to elemental mods (unless you use conjures). Basically, it would make the Ebon mod completely obsolete.

MithranArkanere · Nov 02, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

IT won't ignore armor. But WILL ignore 'Armor versus elemental damage' and 'armor versus physical damage'. And since many skills increase both, many armor increaseing skills would be ignred by weapons with that mod.

unienaule · Nov 02, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Make holy damage elemental?

MithranArkanere · Nov 02, 2007, 05:23 PM // 17:23

XD.

No. That would make things worse. Holy damage by definition is NON-elemental, like chaos and dark damage.

unienaule · Nov 02, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

And that would make things worse because...? You could have an uber undead-slaying mod, but without the downside of imbalancing PvP.

Snow Bunny · Nov 02, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Undead mobs are always really easily countered by builds; it's not as though we really need an elemental damage type that can be affixed to weapons to aid us.

Just make N/Mo and E/Mo smite nukers. It's what I always do in the krytan missions :P

There's just no real need for this type of adjustment, except to make PvP more imbalanced. Unien, your suggestion while rational would really only benefit a rather niche set of conditions :P

pkodyssey · Nov 02, 2007, 06:07 PM // 18:07

/not signed... not signed at all. Can you imagine a 55 monk farming undead with SoJ and a holy mod?